Taking the work out of life with Ross Griffin

Ross Griffin grew up on a farm in the west of Ireland, built a business, across multiple countries with his partners, and still thought he wasn't doing enough for Kosmos Company.

In this conversation he talks about the guilt of taking a walk in the sun. The thinking he did in front of the TV instead of being present with his family. The frustration that had nothing to do with the business and everything to do with what was going on inside him.

Today Ross shows up differently — calmer, more present, more confident in the journey. The difference between then and now — is that Ross stopped long enough to question what he was doing and say yes to putting himself first.

Interested in working with John?
Book a Grounded Call here: https://calendly.com/johndouglas-coaching/deru-conversation

00:00:00 — Teaser
00:00:33 — Introduction
00:01:34 — Meet Ross Griffin
00:03:25 — Pressure Behind Business Growth
00:06:37 — Self Awareness and Ego
00:10:39 — Changing the Relationship with Business
00:15:19 — Building a Better Culture
00:21:03 — Culture and Profitability
00:25:41 — Advice for Leaders
00:30:03 — Closing Thoughts

If you'd like to connect with Ross,
Email: ross@kosmos.company
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ross-griffin-kosmos/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

As the business was growing, and now remember it's in multiple locations. I felt that we were coming under quite a bit of pressure. And it wasn't external pressures, it was internal pressures, pressures, questions like, are we doing enough? Should we be further than where we are now? Why aren't we getting those projects? Why aren't we getting the right the people that we need, the right people? Why? And it was kind of this idea that it wasn't enough, wanted more. And I could see the strain on ourselves, the partners, and I could see the strain kind of happening personally.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Welcome to the Grounded Man podcast by Deru. I am your host, John Douglas, and founder of Deru. And this space is for hardworking men building businesses, carrying responsibility, and providing for the families who feel they should be freer. You see, the world has changed, and leading through hard work and long hours now limits a man's influence. The new way is mastering the inner game of leadership so you can carry it well, enjoy what you're building, and still feel free. Ross has been a client of mine, we've been working together for the past 18, 19 months. Um he's I've had the privilege of getting to work not just with him, but actually with his team at his business Cosmos. The reason I suppose I love speaking with Ross and working with Ross is that he loves challenging how he thinks, to think more ambitiously, to think outside the box and to uh raise other people up with him on the journey along with that. So I originally recorded uh this short piece with Ross just to grab a few minutes with social media, but it kind of escalated and blew into a full-blown conversation. So I said it was too good not to share with others because Ross shares so much value that challenges you know things like how we work, challenges what we think about success, what we think about ambition. Um, so that you're really aligning with it for yourself and doing it for yourself before you start you know chasing numbers and figures. So I thought there was so much value in it, and I wanted you to hear it straight from Ross. And so I hope you enjoyed as much as I did. Ross, you're very welcome to the podcast. Tell us who you are and what business you're in.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

So my name is Ross Griffin. Uh I'm a founder of a digital cost and carbon consultancy called Cosmos, founded in 2019 in Copenhagen in Denmark. I used to live in Denmark, but I'm originally from a small village in the west coast of Ireland in West Limerick called Lochell. I'm now living back in Ireland. Um back a number of years back. Uh opened an Irish office there. So uh yeah, it's uh a business, I guess, now that transitions borders and so on. Um also we have um a SaaS company. It's a cloud-based kind of cost and carbon management uh tool that tracks cost and carbon through project lifecycle, as well as being a benchmark and database for cost and carbon information.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

And what kind of challenges were you having around 18 months ago, Ross, before we started working together, and you said you need to do something here?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

So I'm I I'm quite a deep person anyway. Like I everything I wear everything on my sleeve. You can ask me a question, I'm I'm open, I'll I'll answer you no problem at all. But as the business was growing, and now remember it's in multiple locations. I felt that we were coming under quite a bit of pressure, and it wasn't external external pressures, it was internal pressures, pressures questions like, are we doing enough? Should we be further than where we are now? Why aren't we getting those projects? Why aren't we getting the right the people that we need, the right people? Why, why? And it was kind of this idea that it wasn't enough, wanted more. Um, and I could see the strain on on ourselves, the partners, and I could see the strain kind of happening personally. Now that might have to do with the fact moving back home after 12, 13 years, being in a different age, kind of in turning into the 40s, that type of thing, all of that comes together, and it's all kind of physical and emotional and all of that. So there was this kind of something around going around in my head that there was something more we needed to do, and maybe it wasn't externally, maybe it was internally. And it coincidentally, and this is serendipity, maybe coincidentally, John Yu contacted me and said, Look, this is what I'm doing. Would you be interested in a chat? And I went, okay, something the universe or something was telling us, telling me something here because this is what I was thinking. So I think we had a conversation about what it is that you you provide for business owners and the and this idea that self-love is one of the most important things. So looking internally at oneself, aligning one's ambition and needs and wants with the world, and being happy with oneself is much more important than all the outer noise that happens. And the outer noise is the big is the big challenge that we have as humans because that's we're educated to think about the outer noise. We're we're uh institutionalized, I would say, in society to think about the outer noise, you know, keeping up with the Joneses, all of this stuff, social media, newspapers, and we're actually not taught about the deeper self and our spiritual self and our internal kind of happiness. And that to me is an absolute game changer for the simple reason that very few people do it, yet it's one of the things that we've access to daily that doesn't cost us anything, but yet we don't do it, so we don't appreciate the fact that we as a human being are you know one in a trillion chance, you know, and yet we're here. Um, and the fact that we live in this beautiful world and there's nature all around us, etc. etc. etc., we're skewed a little bit. So having that chat with you, I think kind of the light that light bulb moment as people talk about, that light bulb moment come on and actually there must be something in this. Let's let's investigate.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

What has our work together done for you, Ross?

SPEAKER_01 6:41

So, from a personal perspective, again, I'm quite an open person, I wear my heart and my sleeve. You can ask me anything, I'll talk about any subject matter, it doesn't matter to me. Um, because I think that's important. I think we talked a lot about ego. Um, and now the translation of ego from a societal perspective is bravado, big-chested, you know, I'm better than you, all of that kind of stuff. But that's actually that's in my education on the journey with you, John, is that's actually only part of an ego. Really, ego is something that everybody has. It's it's your mind telling you that you should do something when your heart tells you that you shouldn't, type of thing. It's this part of the ego, you know, I should be doing better. Why am I doing this? Why don't we have that type of scenario? And so for me personally, the journey has been about a couple of things. One, growing up on a farm, growing up where your parents are constantly working, gives you this type of work ethic. But it has a connection, it connects you with work, it connects your you personally, your character with work. Even in our conversations at home now with my parents who are in their 70s, and my brothers and sisters, we all talk the same way about work. That it's it is who we are. We are good workers, we are grinders, we absolutely go and do it. It doesn't matter if it's an extra day or two days, we'll do it. That has been bred into us. And so when I was working in the business, and let's just hypothetically say Thursday afternoon the sun was out and I went out for a walk, I used to feel super guilty about that because my colleagues were still in the office or working elsewhere wherever they were, and that guilty piece prevented me from taking that walk or enjoying that sunshine or enjoying moments for myself, even sitting down and the idea of sitting down and writing notes and and doodling and just giving yourself time to think, I felt guilty about that because personally, work for me is output. Work for me is, and this is the same as a kid growing up on a farm to being a QS cost manager delivering on projects to being a CEO and an owner of a business. It's output, output, output. What did you produce in that hour? Why did it take you an hour? Could you do it in 20 minutes? It's output, output, output, output, and not realizing that the softer elements of it, the the thinking, the reflection, the the components of uh entrepreneurial ship actually is part of your work, it's part of what is required of you as a leader, and that to me was alien because I did all my thinking kind of after the office. I did all my thinking in my spare time when I'm at home sitting with my family or sitting with watching TV with my wife. That's when I did my thinking. But that meant that I wasn't present. So for me personally, that has shifted completely. The idea that one, that what you do is not the output piece, it's actually as a leader, it's it's you reflecting on yourself, working on yourself internally to give your best self to come with your best energy to uh to every day, to the people you deal with, making sure that you are enjoying life because we only have one life. So that's it's just a major shift and something so simple, and we're never taught it. It's yeah, it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

And how does this feed into the business then? Because obviously, if you're showing up differently, it must be having some kind of impact on those around you.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

First of all, the consequence to the business is my relationship with the business that's changed completely. It's gone from that pressure piece where I was reflecting on the outward um challenges which were directly affecting my mood, the challenges we have with people directly affecting my mood, um, that frustration, that anger, all of these emotions that actually are completely and utterly irrelevant. Like if you're getting angry and frustrated, that's on you. That's not anything that has happened in the situation. That's your representation of the situation. You can easily be brush it off and go, ah, okay, let's let's kick on and deal with it. But no, we get angry and frustrated, and we take it home and we're eating the dinner and we're still angry. We need to remove all that crap. And so the relationship with the business has changed now because it's the journey is part, or these emotions or interactions with the business is part of the journey. Things not going right, part of the journey, how you react to them, that's on you. So you can easily react to them in a positive way and and move on, as opposed to getting angry and shouting and all of this type of stuff. Not that I would do that, but I'm saying in general, that emotional that has changed dramatically for me. So the relationship with the business has changed, meaning my relationship with my life has changed. So what do I value now? And I think the trend, the educational piece for me, John, is that kind of you are what your life is, you have the responsibility for your life, you have the responsibility of how you feel, what you do, the decisions you make. That's on you. Not on the external world, not on it's not my fault, it's their fault. It's on you. And so what has happened to me and with the business is now I take time for the business, but by taking time for myself, taking time to doodle that leadership hour piece, just giving gratitude, writing it down on a morning basis, going for that run when the sun is out, you know, taking the taking time, not pressuring myself that we have to have to, we have to have this, we need to have this, we should have this, we should be here. All of these, all of these words are words you're are putting pressure on you when in reality that's not necessary. If you're happy and confident that the journey you're on is one of fulfillment and contentment, then there is no should, could, would. It is kind of this is what it is. This is where we should, this is where we are now, you know, because this is the journey we're on. That has that's an eye-opener. It changed it completely changes the the chemicals in the brain um in terms of how you treat yourself and how you treat the day and how you treat others. And it effectively that is it's how you show up, then that affects how you show up. So you're just a different person. And so what's changed in the business? There's a couple of things. First of all, your reaction to the business changes. If you don't win the tender, so what? It's not life or debt. It's okay. You win some, you lose some. That's saying, you know, it's okay, let's move on. Maybe it wasn't the right time. But one of the things that I've found in the last 18 months in our conversations, John, was when I had a frustration and we talked about it, you'd ask me a simple question, but why does that matter? Or really what is the problem? Or what's the issue? Why are you frustrated? And on reflection, you're kind of going, of gonna fuck it, why are you asking me that? And the answer really is there is no answer. There's why are you frustrated? More than likely, it's something deeper within you rather than the situation that's happening outside. Because you're frustrated with the fact that you're disappointed in yourself, giving that person that opportunity didn't work out. That's a disappointment. I should have seen that. Not winning the Tinder, that's a disappointment because maybe we should have gone with a better proposal. It's all got to do with you. That's why you're frustrated, that's why you're angry, that's why you're disappointed, that's why it's it's you, not the outside world. So, what has changed for the business is first of all your relationship with it. If not winning that tender, maybe those people not working out, that relationship with the client breaking down. So what? Get on with it. The other side is that you take your view of the business differently. If you trust the journey, then you trust that it will work out. You have an awful lot more confidence in the business. And I mean confidence in the sense that it doesn't matter if we don't win the projects. Projects will come to us because I believe that they will, because I believe in the journey, I believe in what we're doing, and I believe in myself more importantly. And if we all had this same kind of recognition in the business, it would be incredibly powerful. In reality, we would be unstoppable as a group. And I don't mean unstoppable in the sense that we can invade countries. I mean unstoppable in the sense that we personally would have such confidence in ourselves, and I don't mean ego, I mean confidence in ourselves, such a surety in ourselves that we could kind of march together or be on this journey together, on this train together, leading in that way. Um, the other side is that we started doing uh kind of workshops with the leadership team as well, which is important because this concept, albeit in reflection, is so simple that it takes an awful lot of time and effort to convert people's opinion of focusing on the inside first versus focusing on the outside, because we are conditioned to focus on the outside, we're conditioned to that qualification, that job, that tender, that that salary, that we're conditioned that way. We're not conditioned to kind of understand our own happiness internally. And so working with our senior leadership team has helped us as a group to be much closer together, but also way more honest with each other. And we've been on that now for about a year now with the senior guys, and we'll continue, we'll get we'll do more work on this for sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Is enjoying it allowing the business to grow as fast as it can, or do you think it's slowing it down in any way?

SPEAKER_01 16:23

It's the that's a difficult one to answer because if you feel that the journey is right for you, does that really matter? So actually, what has ended up happening is the metrics have changed for us while we're looking at a growth piece that goes like this, we're kind of going, Annie, does that really matter? Doesn't matter that we're 200 people. Who gives a shit? Like, does it really matter that we have to hit 200 people? Is it more important that we find the right people that fit our culture where we can build a brand and a concept that is completely different to anything that's out there? So, what's more important? Is it the turnover, the number of people, the Ibita, or is it the culture, the quality of life, the fact that we can influence and change is change people's lifestyle. So, what's more important? And now for us, it's uh it's it's the culture, it's the lifestyle, it's changing people's lives, it's giving them a happy place, a happy environment, a safe environment. That's what it's important for us. If we do that with 50, 100, 200 people, with a 10, 20, 40, 50, but who cares? It's it's it's this piece, because if we can if we can achieve this, then we've succeeded. But that's the metrics we've put on ourselves, and that's where where we've removed the ego piece to a certain degree because often we link money with ego, you know, whereas actually what we're linking here with ego is lifestyle. We want cosmos as a concept, cosmos is a lifestyle, cosmos is a place where people look in and go, Man, that looks cool. I I want to work there. What do they do? Actually, it doesn't matter what they do, I want to work there.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

When looking at traditional metrics, how has this helped?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

I I I won't deny that in the last 18 months we refocused the business on how we attract people, for sure. We we have put different parameters in place, we really focus on kind of that cultural piece, absolutely. Um along with that, I would say that we also kind of help people in their journey, you know, what's the purpose of them coming in here working in the business, that type of thing, you know. Um, and that has been that has been interesting, I would say. An example was we just did a study trip and we went on a mindfulness study trip. This is the first time we did it. Um usually we'd we'd focus on the externals. So we go to a we take the entire team to a city, we'd do cultural stuff, we'd have a look at the city, we'd do walks, we'd do stuff like that. But it's all external, it's all looking at the the place we are. This year we started, we went to a uh a really nice place in France and we started looking internally to who we are as individuals, as a business, that type of thing. And the engagement we got from the team was just fantastic. So I think people businesses measured in metrics, Ibita, turnover, staff, retention, projects, locations, etc. etc. That's all well and good. You you have to have money in a business to operate the business. It has to be profitable, it has to be. Otherwise, you'll struggle as a business to stay efficient and and and survive. But for the people in the business and for our lives in general, is that the metric we want to wake up to every morning to think about? Is it is it the is it the profit, is it the Ibita, is it the the money, or do we want to wake up about into into something that we feel totally and utterly connected to? Now, how do you measure that connection? You measure that connection by employee happiness. Now you can have employee and happiness where you're fully focused on the Ibitab because every single person you have in there is money driven. Lovely. If that's your if that's what you want as a business, then absolutely. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm saying that's that's just a different culture to what we're trying to create. We want to remove the idea of money completely from our working environment, even though we're cost managers, we manage money every day. It's a complete and utter contradiction. Like it's complete and utter contradiction. I'm a cost manager, I'm a quantity surfair, I do not care about money. I think it's irrelevant. Yet that's what I do for a living. So you kind of go, that doesn't make any sense, you know. Um, but we want our business to be like that. We want the core function, the core culture of internally in our business to be that. Because we do something every single day, we manage money, we do not want that to be the focus of our business. Because I think that will rot the culture for our business personally, other business is no problem. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong, I'm just saying that's who we are.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Is developing the right culture in the business going to have any long-term impact on profitability? Will it impact it in any way? Will it take from it? Culture.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

It will have a direct effect on it. Culture will have a direct effect on profitability, it'll have a direct effect on tornover, it'll have a direct effect on employee satisfaction, which have a direct effect on client satisfaction. Because we are a people's based business, we're a consultancy, we sell experience, knowledge, structure through our people. So if the people aren't happy, if the people aren't connected with the business, if the people do not feel that this is where they want to be in their lives working no matter what, then of course it's going to affect all the other metrics. So our intention here is to Make sure that we create a place, an environment, uh, a lifestyle for our people that is focused on them and their quality of lives rather than focus on the Ibita and the profit. But the direct effect of focusing on them and their quality of life will have a direct effect on the Ibita and the profit and turnover. It just naturally, naturally will. Because someone that is super happy with with what they're doing will always try to do the best job they can. By doing the best job they can will have a direct effect on the relationship they have the client, the project, the turnover, the process, etc. etc. etc.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

What's the difference in delegation between giving somebody a task to do versus helping them develop a deeper connection with the work?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

If it's task-oriented, then you can do a task and not feel emotionally connected to the task. You can do that, finish the task, and suddenly your brain switches on again and you kind of go, Jesus, what was I doing for the last two hours? You have no relationship with it. Whereas if you're emotionally connected to and I don't like say work because it shouldn't be work per se, because we we we associate work with something you have to do in order to get something in return. So I I I have to work, so I do get I can get paid, so I can live my life. So we kind of go, why do we use that terminology? Let's not use that terminology work or job or let's just use it, it's it's life. And so if you're living your life and you're spending this amount of time with your colleagues living your life, living your best life, then what you're doing for your colleagues and the relationships you're having, because that's all it is, it's just relationship, relationship with your colleagues internally, relationship with your client, externally, relationship with your with what you are providing, relationship with your experience and knowledge, relationship about how you're sharing that experience and knowledge. Yes, there's a remuneration factor uh of of uh um that that you get for that, but that's that's just the way the society is structured. But if you're associated with if your life is associated with your relationships and you're loving the your life and the relationships you're having, then is it work? Is it a job? If you asked yourself the question, would I do something different if I had the opportunity? And your answer is absolutely no, I'm low, I love what I do, then you you're not really working, you're living your life to the best of its potential. And isn't that where we want to get to for people? We want people to wake. I we had a talk yesterday about do you ever get the Sunday evening jitters where you're kind of going, fuck, it's working tomorrow, work in the morning. For people out there that are listening to this and they have that. Imagine if you never had that. Imagine if you were waking up on a Sunday and you you you did your exercise looking forward to Monday, meeting the people, the the challenges that are in front of you, the things that you needed to do because fuck this stuff is exciting. I like this, you know. Imagine that. Imagine that. And that should be what your life should be like. That's what the culture surrounding your life should be like. It should be one of excitement and one of kind of fulfillment and all of that. It shouldn't be one of fear and dread and anxiety because well, you're not loving what you do. And if you don't love what you do, you don't love your life. And if you don't love your life, it becomes a bit of a challenge. So, from our perspective, let's let's try and break that. Let's try and break that old traditional, you know, you need to work for me because I'm the boss, you know, as opposed to come on, let's go on the journey together, let's get on the bus. Let's see how fun. You can get off anytime you want, of course, but let's get on and see what it's like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

And Ross, if somebody today is listening to this and they're in a similar position to the way you were 18 months ago, feeling the pressure, feeling frustration, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_01 25:52

The most important thing you can do is make sure that you as an individual grows. And I don't mean eat more food. I mean grows as in your character, your knowledge, all of that. You you're you should be an absolutely, absolutely open door. Let everything in because you don't know what will affect you in a positive way. So if you have an opinion on something, you need to break that, break, break down that opinion. You need to get contradictory uh opinions on it to understand what is the the alternative to this. So most people think in their lives that this is the way. You often hear this the story, people giving out about people about why are they doing that, but because this is the right way. There's multiple ways to it. But if you if you allow your mind to be open, then you allow yourself to grow. And the most important thing as a leader is the growth piece. Because what ends up happening as a leader is you might start, let's just hypothetically say you're in your 30s and you go through kind of three or four decades of leadership 30, 40, 50, 60. In those decades, you will come across different people, but also you're shifting in the decades, and the newer generation are coming in, and they want something different. Now, if you're managing your business in the same way you did when you were 30, you're going to be in a serious problem. Absolute serious problem because the newer generation coming in will not be interested in working in a business where you have set it up 20 years ago, in in the way we work and operate 20 years ago, they won't be interested in that. So you need to have your mind open and constant evolution, constant growth in yourself. That's the most important thing. Um, and if you if you can do that, if you can be really honest about that, honestly, your life will change because you'll you'll never get angry, you'll never get frustrated, you'll you'll you'll you'll never get pissed off for the simple reason that it actually none of it matters. And there's this can that comes after it, because nothing can deny you, which is for me, that's just fucking super interesting. Nothing can annoy you, you're always in a good mood, you're always showing up. And the only reason that that has happened is because you've opened your mind to the idea that actually that's okay. People can have opinions and you can have your opinion, but it doesn't really matter. So that growth piece is key.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

And so if somebody is interested in that, what should they do?

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah, like some people say, uh, it's grand, I'll just read a book, you know, I'm fine. That momentarily that's good. Often you'll pick up some nuances of ideas and stuff, but like like any sport, like any training, you it needs to be consistent. And you need you need I I'd argue you need help at the beginning. Every professional athlete has trainers because they're the trainers are the expert in the sport. The person training for the sport might be super young, it's their first time, etc. They need help with from these experts. I'm always of the opinion that if you have decided in your mind that you would like to do something, find the expert that will help you do it. Because the growth piece is exponential. If you try it yourself, you you could do it, you know, over time it's longer. You maybe it's like going to the gym, you know, you start in January, you do I'm gonna do five days a week, you do five days a week, you know, next thing it's four days a week, it's three days a week, I'll I'll do it the weekends, and suddenly it drips off. But if you've committed to a trainer who's going to be there three days a week for you, and you're paying that trainer, suddenly the relationship with what it is you want to do changes completely. Because you've committed, and it's not financial, forget about the finance. You've committed to the individual in the relationship that you you're going to be there and they're going to help you. That's why you people turn up, that's why sports teams turn up, that's why the GEA is what it is. People aren't there playing for the GEA, people are there playing for their teammates. They turn up unpaid, most professional, unprofessional sport in the world. They turn up for the for the people, and the same principle applies. So if you're committed to it, I always say I always think that it's a good idea to find a professional to help you advise you, and then you're committing to that relationship. Now that might be for a period of time, short, medium, long term, it doesn't matter. That's up to you as the individual for what you want to get out of it. Um, yeah. So who are you going to call? I guess you're going to call John.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

And thank you so much for joining me today, Ross. Assuming, I'm not asking. Anything that Ross has said has resonated with you, maybe some of the same challenges, some of the aspirations, go and do something about that today. Like, like, like what Ross did. Don't just keep going and grinding it out and doing more. Take a step back and think and reflect on where you need to go. And of course, Ross and the team at Cosmos are doing great work, exciting work. And if you want to connect with them, I'm going to drop some details below in the description. Um, and if you are looking and listening to Ross here and saying, I want some of that and you're not sure where to go, please give me a message. There's no obligation, there's no pressure. We just have a grounded call just to see where you're at and possibly how it can help. So thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you next week. Take care. Thank you so much for listening today. I really enjoy sharing this wisdom because it doesn't come from me, it comes through me from the work I do with men like you that I serve. So if the idea you shared today resonated, be sure to like and follow the show. And if another man would value it, share this episode with him. Because the more men who hear this, the more of us can break free from pressure and enjoy what we're building. So let's enjoy the build together. Thank you for listening. I'll see you next week.